“We don’t have any watches” -Rolex

3 years ago I decided to buy an Oyster Perpetual & a Datejust. I had no prior knowledge of waiting lists or the possibility I could be snubbed . I emailed Watches World in London (Sorry, not Watches of Mayfair) & asked if they had both watches available at the prices quoted & said that if they did I would buy both on the spot. I was even daft enough to ask for a discount!

The next day they contacted me, said they had both watches & that they'd give me £400 off the price if I bought them that morning. I sent them a deposit & 10 days later I received both watches the day after the balance was settled.

I had absolutely no previous history with them or any other Rolex AD. I did pay a bit over retail but given the way the market was at the time it was minimal. I'm always perplexed to hear the more unfortunate stories from other Crunchers about their experiences. For me, ignorance was bliss. Had I thought I'd be refused I very likely wouldn't have even asked. I wouldn't want to give them the opportunity to be selective in whom they sell to.

Exactly the type of experience I was curious about! Thank you.🙏🏽

Rolex be like:

Marketing BS 101.

Tell everyone there's nothing available - Create the illusion of a supply problem

Tell everyone that they need to get on the waiting list - Create the illusion that there are so many people standing in line that they needed to make a list

Tell them that they need to buy something other than they want to be able to get what they want - Create the illusion that they care about their customers, when in fact all they care about is selling watches

There has been post here from an article showing that Rolex made over 1.25 Million watches last year. That was more than all but 6 Swiss watch companies. I don't understand how an AD can tell you that there's no watches available.

How many people buy more than 1 Rolex a year? How many people are actually looking to buy 1 Rolex a year?

With this waiting list and Rolex's ability to MASS PRODUCE watches why are they making so many watches that people aren't looking to buy?

Personally, I think it's just Rolex trying to keep the demand high for a poorly (look at all the videos popping up on the matter) massed produced watch for the profit of it all.

Very succinct and helpful. You’re spot on I think. Thank you!

I don't even worry about it. I have what I like and what they do and how they do it is beyond me. I think the answer lies in demand, demand, demand.

That’s kind of where I’m at. It pushed me to collect watches and not just Rolexes.

I have lost interest in bothering Rolex as what I want , a 36mm White OP no longer is offered new ! Why would you drop a consistent watch like that ? I won’t buy Grey market on principle.

My Timex AD takes damn good care of me.

Maybe you need to change brand loyalty.

You might of heard of my AD…. Goes by the name Ashford.

You're paying way too much for worms, man. Who's your worm guy?

I know it’s not the white dial, but the silver dial is super nice. The sunburst effect is 🤌🏼

I don't know who he buys from.

But I used to work for an outfit named Autry's Worm Ranch. I helped build them into a nice SMB. They changed the name to AWR Distributing and turned it into a full line fishing tackle distributor. When the father wanted to retire, he sold the business to Big Rock.

So, I bet the other guy is paying too much for his worms. 🤠

The real question is...why do you want a Rolex?

1) Goal of life to celebrate success - show the world you have achieved enough to wear a "Rolex"

2) Have a recognized watch brand as part of your business attire to fit in and be accepted

3) Really love the Rolex history and the brand

4) Enhance your opportunities with the opposite sex

...I'm sure the list could keep going.

My guess is that hardly anyone would answer with the following...

5) I want an example of a superb quality high horology wristwatch that demonstrates the finest watchmaking in the world

...because if that was your motivation it would not be fulfilled buying a Rolex.

Rolex is a solid mid-tier luxury watch that many people can stretch to afford. The watch is well built and reliable. The bracelets are some of the best you can buy. Solid industrial standard reliable movements. And designs that have come to be seen as "iconic" wristwatches.

In answer to your question why there is a constraint on availability, it's exactly what I just mentioned...there are a large number of people who can stretch to afford a Rolex from the less expensive references to the more expensive references. Thus, with such high demand, dealers have no incentive to hunt for buyers. Basically they have no need to pitch...only catch.

The same is true for Patek Philippe at the next higher tier of luxury. There are enough wealthy collectors and wealthy people who wish to be wearing a Patek that there is no need to pitch only catch. The production numbers are a fraction of Rolex's production, but so are the numbers of people that can afford a Patek.

The real gems are for those who are watch cognoscenti...LUC, JLC, Gronefeld, Minerva, and a number of other superbly manufactured and finished watches. These buyers are not motivated by how the general public reacts to what they are wearing. They are motivated instead by what they are wearing on their wrist.

Probably some combo of 1, 2 and 3.

I will say, I do generally enjoy how robust Rolexes have been compared to other watches at similar price points, and no question - in my limited experience, I find the Rolex bracelets to be superb and the best taper, clasp, comfort.

That being said, I really only want the stainless models, and I only want to pay retail.

You’re spot on - better watches exist. Both from a value proposition and horological view.

What can I say, the heart wants what the heart wants. 🤷

Yup, "rich people don't buy Rolex". There's some truth to that.

Hard to love them, when you hear peope share their experience.

Can’t really add much to this discussion for now. I don’t like the AD culture but I do understand why the are artificially decreasing supply so not anyone can just buy the watch. Because if you’re spending 10-20k on a watch, money is really just a number to you, so being to have the “exclusive models” like the GMT will add more meaning to it. I’m glad my Rolex taste which I dream to own is on the lower end being the Plain Jane Submariner and the Rolex Explorer 36mm.

On the side note, I currently work at a mid level watch boutique (Longines, Tag Heuer, Rado, Tissot, Baumé and Mercier, Edox and Raymond Weil are the watches we have) in Australia and I have been given the verbal offer to work at the Hour Glass Australia, currently awaiting for my contract to be given and officially accepting the role. Maybe I can leak some industry secrets hoho. Find me if y’all visit Australia haha

Most of the time there are no actual lists and they have plenty of watches in stock, they are just not allowed to sell them to everyone. They are creating fake demand and a feel of luxury. This is their marketing strategy. I remember there was a video by a guy who used work at Rolex AD.

Don’t get me wrong, Rolex is nice and and I’d love to have them one, but I kinda despise what the brand has become.

Rolex watches are solid, but they are not worth waiting for several years to buy. They are not that exceptional and there’s nothing really luxurious about them (apart from the money they spent on marketing).

I’d rather buy a Grand Seiko in this case cause there will be no AD morons keeping me waiting for two years for it when in fact they can sell anything.

I have no truck with the wealthy spending money on whatever they want.

But it does worry me though when you see those who are less able to afford it rubbing too close to the Rolex phenomenon as financing a watch seems nuts. If it’s that marginal a financial transaction don’t go near it - it’s just a watch and it’s way over priced.

You can look through a few galleries and see that clearly money is not an issue but for those with other financial priorities in life aspiring to a Rolex seems mad when there are watches that are as good or better for so much less. But if you toot that horn the fan boys soon pile in.

It’s funny because if it’s a superyacht or a Caribbean island no one really aspires to own one as $150m plus is way out of reach but with a Rolex it’s easy to get sucked in because “it’s only the cost of a small car” … but all you get is a watch!

That’s awful.

My AD is lovely, always welcomed me in (I do need an appointment, but they are easy to get). He always offers me a drink. We have a nice chat, try on some watches, and one day he might offer me a watch. We both know he won’t sell me anything on the day but it’s about saying hello and showing interest.

Lots of comments on that subject already, but I wanted to come back to your original post and thank you for all the information!

As for me living in Switzerland I never liked to walk into the big stores in Zürich and Geneva. With the security guards in front, cutting through all the Snobby Tourists…Fortunately over here it’s possible to find a small retailer whom I trust and have a connection.

Odd reading so much negatively towards a brand that let’s be honest the majority would have if they could.

Rolex aren’t the best watches around, but like Apple are a solid 8/10 in most criteria & probably one of the most recognisable brands in the world.

They are one of the true great marketers of their time. Most average joes in most parts of the world will most likely know the name & brand, & I remember ready they are the most countefited brand.

They may have moved out of their tool watch beginnings which made them the watches of choice for many in the 60s, 70s & 80s. They are now turning into more ‘jewellery’ luxury brand & is it really their fault, the current market does dictate this. Don’t they top the sales of Swiss watches year on year?

They now have Tudor doing well & topping up their entry level vibe.

In years to come when this hobbie dies to death, and isn’t needed by whatever generation. There’ll only be a few brands around that are now, guarantee Rolex will be one.

I understand your point, and find your choice of analogy interesting. I presume that a prostitute might turn down a client due to hygiene or safety concerns, for example. But this is watch selling we're talking about. Couldn't this also be like refusing to sell your house to someone because you don't want their kind in your neighborhood? Even if you had the legal right, I think most would consider that to be morally repugnant. My understanding is that that the word "luxury" equates to extravagance. It concerns me when luxury becomes conflated with favoritism or elitism. Just my two cents. And since it's unlikely that I'll ever purchase a new Rolex, it's not really my fight in any case.

I always go grey market... I cannot stand the employees at Rolex AD that have zero knowledge what they are talking about, trying to be friendly and asking stupid questions. I hate the experience and would love to just exchange money for a watch in paper bag same like I'm shopping for groceries. I'm there to buy a watch not to have experience or make friends.

Not wrong and that's part of what makes us angry.

I just buy from trusted sellers and be done with it. As long as you’re OK with the price, this avoids all the drama.

So I meant to post a quick reply earlier this afternoon but duty calls… and as a result of several edits this ended up much longer than originally intended.

I've been treated terribly at a major chain in London some years ago, where I was asked to buy other less-demanded Rolex watches in order to facilitate getting on a waitlist for the ones I wanted, even though I had decent purchase history of several other brands through the same AD. Never went back, but I understood that that was not Rolex, that was a shitty AD, and all ADs are not created equal. That being said, yes, Rolex has a distribution issue.

I have two local ADs that I frequent, one in a small city in Italy and one in London, and they both treat me well and with respect. That does not mean I am able to walk out with the watch I want each time, but I'm not bullshitted; these are Veblen goods and I understand what I’m getting into. I'm on extremely good terms with the manager in London, and have broached this topic in the past with both, and there are some points in common:

1. There is no 'artificial shortage', 'artificial restriction of supply', or whatever other misinformation is being propagated; there IS a scarcity but it’s not artificial or manipulated. A couple of the bigger YouTube channels 🙌 which were key in spreading this misinformation recently retracted it, sadly as with most things on the web, once it's out there…

2. Rolex supplies a high number of watches in comparison to other mass-produced watches from, for example, Omega, Cartier, Grand Seiko. But despite this high supply, demand STILL far outstrips it, especially with the much higher-demand steel sports models. Flipping is an issue, and Rolex is taking steps to prevent this, actively deauthorizing dealers found to be engaging in this practice; some stores require a potential customer have a brief chat (almost like an interview) and fill out some paperwork, an exercise that's supposed to help weed out the flippers from the serious buyers. Still, it's a far from perfect deterrent.

Based on chats I've had with the managers a couple of years ago: depending on the market (and AD), some ADs get only small allocation of the more popular models. My AD in Italy said they may get a couple hundred allocations a year, a small portion of that being high-demand models; other ADs in the same city will also have their own allocations. The AD in London wouldn't give numbers but said they don't get that many high-demand models a year relative to the number of people who want them. One thing in common to both: they have frequent 'clients' who regularly patronize them, and they tend to take care of their frequent clients before they consider walk-ins, for a number of reasons, primarily customer-retention and avoiding flippers — the former is just good business in my opinion. They both also admitted that they don't like having to decline walk-ins when they inquire after high-demand models because there's already a long list of frequent clients waiting for that call who get first dibs. They both also said, depending on circumstances, a walk-in may get offered a high demand model if it's been turned down by a few regular/preferred clients. But EVERYONE (regular clients and walk-ins) is asking for a high-demand steel sports Rolex; so some unscrupulous ADs try to dangle the high-demand models as an incentive in an effort to offload the less popular models first. Again, this is not all ADs, and thankfully Rolex is expanding operations in the hopes of meeting more of this demand so fingers crossed …I’d love to be able to get a Daytona before I die myself.

Most high-demand models are also sold before they have a chance to hit the display cases; back in 2020 at the height of the hype I got to chatting with the manager of the London AD and they asked me which models I was interested in and I mentioned two GMT Masters and a Milgauss Z-Blue; I was told that the GMTs were extremely high-demand and it wasn’t likely I’d get one anytime soon. I was local to them (10 minute walk) and would frequently stop in for a chat on the way home from work, establishing a rapport. Three months later I get the call and was offered a Batman when I was away on holiday (no purchase history except an Oyster Perpetual as a gift for my wife, which was the reason I walked in there in the first place); they agreed to hold it for me for a couple of weeks until I arrived back in London; two frequent clients had turned it down and they reached out to me. The Batman was then apparently displayed in the window until I returned to collect it… they assured me that no one except the previous client was allowed to try it on before I did, it was only displayed, and I can understand how frustrating it would be to a potential buyer if they were told 'no' while the watch was right there in the window.

I have always held that the distribution model sucks, and this is what happens when the AD is the customer, not you … but there's no nefarious scheme afoot, it's simple demand and supply with a pinch (large scoop?) of the luxury game thrown in … as someone else said, look up Veblen goods, yay capitalism. This is not unique to Rolex, and every luxury watch brand from Omega to Cartier is playing (or trying to play) in the same sandpit to varying degrees of success; its neither right nor wrong, it’s just the nature of the game, and raging at it makes it even more so. Good thing is that there are several alternatives out there that will give you satisfaction if you aren’t beholden to the brand.

Follow up. I stopped by the Longs Patek today to get some jewelry for my wife. The staff was phenomenal. We were able to find exactly what we were looking for and everyone was incredibly kind, personable and helpful.

The location was beautiful + immaculate, and to make things even better on this visit they let me try on a couple Pateks. 😍

In retrospect - I am glad I had this experience and I was probably harsh in my original critique of Longs. I think my actual critique is of Rolex and the environment I feel they’ve created for ADs to exist within.

Any dealer is only as good as the agent you work with on that day. Glad you had a better experience. I know they recently picked up PP. I am supposed to go to an event for them soon. Looking forward to seeing them.

Lots of comments when it comes to purchasing a Rolex.

Here is my comment :