Clomage, homage, or original?
Baltany S5033 gained popularity as a budget-friendly military-style chronograph with quality specifications (10 bar WR, sapphire with AR, good lume) and a Seiko's VK61 quartz movement with a mechanically geared chronograph with sweeping hands and instant reset (and a ghost date, but nobody's perfect) so much so it got an even cheaper copy by Militado (sterile dial).
The design is based on a Vietnam war-era US military-spec hand-wound field watch, which was famously made by Hamilton, but Baltany added a chronograph. Hamilton sell the reissue in 38 mm as "Khaki Field Mechanical", as well as a considerably costlier off-shoot with an automatic 12h chronograph movement. For completion's sake, Militado also make a 12h chronograph with a Seiko VK67.
So, is the Baltany (and as am extension Militado) a clomage (copy without am original idea), a homage (a tribute to a classic with an added design value), or would you consider it basically original? Or something else? Please, comment in any case.
Casual cheapskate with a taste for both the classic and the colourful.
I think, since it is not an EXACT copy, it would be an homage.
I think, since it is not an EXACT copy, it would be an homage.
I may be wrong, though. I'm not an expert on US field watches or the Hamilton current and back catalogue.
D) A nice looking watch
D) A nice looking watch
No doubt about that!
I'd say a proper homage - an original design inspired by the past 👍
I can't fully tell w/o seeing the watch from the side, but most of these watches are not that close to a Hamilton Khaki from a case perspective. I would simply call it a field watch.
I can't fully tell w/o seeing the watch from the side, but most of these watches are not that close to a Hamilton Khaki from a case perspective. I would simply call it a field watch.
https://www.baltany.com/product/vintage-military-style-chronograph-s5033/26/
Yeah, I would still call it a field watch. Differences in the case are subtle, but they are there. It's just hard to call something a homage in a field of watches, similar to Flieger watches, if the general design isn't attributed to a specific brand.
Hamilton does not own any rights to the Mil-W-3818B and GG-W-113 mil-spec designs. Nor were they the first manufacturer to produce them for the Military in the 60s.
Military specifications are, by definition, fair use and can not be trademarked. Thus, the Baltany is no more an homage or copy of the Hamilton than the Hamilton is an homage or copy of the original Benrus DTU which was the first watch produced with this aesthetic. Hamilton is simply known for this style because it has become their niche. It is not their design.
1964 Benrus DTU 2A (Mil-W-3818B)
Hamilton does not own any rights to the Mil-W-3818B and GG-W-113 mil-spec designs. Nor were they the first manufacturer to produce them for the Military in the 60s.
Military specifications are, by definition, fair use and can not be trademarked. Thus, the Baltany is no more an homage or copy of the Hamilton than the Hamilton is an homage or copy of the original Benrus DTU which was the first watch produced with this aesthetic. Hamilton is simply known for this style because it has become their niche. It is not their design.
1964 Benrus DTU 2A (Mil-W-3818B)
I agree, but how much do they take from the mil-spec designs and does the Hamilton chronograph - which is Hamilton's own, because there weren't any milspec field chronographs, to my knowledge. Chronographs were specialist watches mainly for aviators. - play into it?
If I like a watch I don't care what other watch it's inspired by. It's not clear to me which watch is a copy, homage or "inspired" by another! 😎
I've seen on social networks like YouTube, how they change the name of a watch that is a copy of another depending on its origin. If, e.g., a copy is from a well-known brand, then it is called "inspiration", if it's not, they call it a homage or simply a vile and evil copy! 😂
If I like a watch I don't care what other watch it's inspired by. It's not clear to me which watch is a copy, homage or "inspired" by another! 😎
I've seen on social networks like YouTube, how they change the name of a watch that is a copy of another depending on its origin. If, e.g., a copy is from a well-known brand, then it is called "inspiration", if it's not, they call it a homage or simply a vile and evil copy! 😂
Well, I don't find "homage" a dirty word, one pays homage to something worthy, to pay tribute.
On the other hand, I found that some designs are boring to my eyes, because they (1) aren't visually interesting enough, (2) copy a design so ubiquitous it's overplayed, or (3) don't give the watch its own identity. Yes, marketing got to me.
I ruminate and overthink, because I have a watch that falls in all three: Tisell Explorer 36 mm. It's an austere watch that shines only at night or on a sunny day outside. It obviously copies a Rolex and it even tool its name. Officially, it's a "9015 Explorer", which is wrong (it has a 90S5, a dateless movement) and non-specific (Tisell offer a 39 mm option as well). And that I compare the joy I have from my Seiko Alpinist - original, pretty, charismatic.
I don't mind homages, and I still might get another clomage if I find it interesting enough, but perhaps it at least needs to have its own name. I can't call mine "Explorer", because it isn't the Explorer. It feels like calling a call girl by your wife's name (I don't have experience with either, but you get the gist.)
Psychology... mighty science.
Well, I don't find "homage" a dirty word, one pays homage to something worthy, to pay tribute.
On the other hand, I found that some designs are boring to my eyes, because they (1) aren't visually interesting enough, (2) copy a design so ubiquitous it's overplayed, or (3) don't give the watch its own identity. Yes, marketing got to me.
I ruminate and overthink, because I have a watch that falls in all three: Tisell Explorer 36 mm. It's an austere watch that shines only at night or on a sunny day outside. It obviously copies a Rolex and it even tool its name. Officially, it's a "9015 Explorer", which is wrong (it has a 90S5, a dateless movement) and non-specific (Tisell offer a 39 mm option as well). And that I compare the joy I have from my Seiko Alpinist - original, pretty, charismatic.
I don't mind homages, and I still might get another clomage if I find it interesting enough, but perhaps it at least needs to have its own name. I can't call mine "Explorer", because it isn't the Explorer. It feels like calling a call girl by your wife's name (I don't have experience with either, but you get the gist.)
Psychology... mighty science.
hahaha...you made me laugh with that last comparison! 😂 I also don't see the use of the word "tribute" as wrong, nor do I've any problems recognizing blatant copies! Thanks to those copies I got tired of seeing watches like the Rolex Submariner! 😕 It's a topic that has many aspects to discuss and debate! But I've to admit that tributes allow us to acquire watches whose designs we like and, in many cases, the original brands stopped manufacturing them decades ago!
hahaha...you made me laugh with that last comparison! 😂 I also don't see the use of the word "tribute" as wrong, nor do I've any problems recognizing blatant copies! Thanks to those copies I got tired of seeing watches like the Rolex Submariner! 😕 It's a topic that has many aspects to discuss and debate! But I've to admit that tributes allow us to acquire watches whose designs we like and, in many cases, the original brands stopped manufacturing them decades ago!
Discontinued watches are totally legit in my opinion. My Explorer isn't that case. 😅
Yes, I am also tired of Submariner copies. Luckily, most copiers make the maxi-cases, which I don't like even on the originals. The older cases, with thin lugs and crown guards (or even without crown guards altogether) are tempting. Or a Panerai design. Or Seiko SKX design (lume on the bezel and screw down crown, maybe in bronze!). I also saw something vaguely familiar, yet different from a Sub, then it dawned on me: It was an Oris Diver's 65 copy. The world out there is dangerous.
Discontinued watches are totally legit in my opinion. My Explorer isn't that case. 😅
Yes, I am also tired of Submariner copies. Luckily, most copiers make the maxi-cases, which I don't like even on the originals. The older cases, with thin lugs and crown guards (or even without crown guards altogether) are tempting. Or a Panerai design. Or Seiko SKX design (lume on the bezel and screw down crown, maybe in bronze!). I also saw something vaguely familiar, yet different from a Sub, then it dawned on me: It was an Oris Diver's 65 copy. The world out there is dangerous.
It's hard to find watches that aren't inspired by something from other watches! But the good thing is that there are brands and designs for all tastes! 😎
Inspiration from what works is best. Orient Kamasu 2 would be perfect for me if it had no crown guards and the size and dial texture of the Mako 40. Oh well.