Let's talk China. 🇨🇳 Do you like Chinese watches? (You can give details in the comments.)

I mostly only get Japanese watches. Casio and Citizen. (Often the Casio movement is Japanese and the case made in Thailand).

Tools I mostly get from USA, Taiwan and Germany. Best quality in my experience.

Electronics are mixed. I look for other options but sometimes the only option is from China.

With straps and bracelets often the only option is Chinese but I make sure there's no leather included because it's very likely to be cat/dog skin send generally just comes from a horrible industry.

That reminds me my new strap has arrived! Going to pick it up from my mail box! 😮

I think it's Chinese.

Depends. I do like homages as a way to try watch styles without having to spend large amounts of money. But I only buy ones from China that have Seiko movements. I wouldn’t consider a homage with a Chinese movement out of concerns for parts support long term. I saw this with scooters (I used to own a couple of Vespas), when there was an influx of cheap bikes from China that were poorly designed and manufactured. I read on several forums about the poor quality and it was made worse by lack of part availability.

When I look at Pagani Design, I am buying into it because of the Seiko movement over the rest of the watch. The more I think about this question, the more I realize that I would not buy a full blown Chinese brand watch. China is good at making cheap things, or if of higher quality counterfeit goods. Right or wrong, I’m kinda stuck in this mindset based on my experiences.

No, I don't do homages myself.

Nowt against China, would prefer if they did their own original designs.

I buy watches because I like em……… there are some Chinese watches that I like and I buy however you have to research and shop carefully because there’s a lot o crap there……..😉

Some of the movements are pretty cool at there price point - just need a little more QC to get more consistent longevity out of them to have higher consumer confidence

I don’t have any modern Chinese watches but I am definitely interested in the Soviet-era watches that are on eBay. Very vintage, very hammer and sickle. 👌🏽Definitely going to get a piece of history one day soon.

No way

Industrial capability in China is massive. So the quality varies from the very low end to the very high end of the spectrum

Also, they produce in mass, so quantity over quality always was an issue when it comes to detailed minute products.

If you would ask me 10 years ago, I would never advise to get a Chinese produced watch, tools or bracelets.

But these days, I’ve been surprised with very high quality, good costumer support and great variety.

Obviously this is still not the norm. And to make sure you get the best China has to offer you have to deviate a bit from mass commerce or get to know the name of the (mostly from Hong-Kong area) companies that are starting to make the jump to higher standards in quality.

Even Microbrands: San Martin, Zelos, Phoibos, Proxima; for example. The improvements in quality have been progressive and even the attention with client care and support have improved greatly in late years.

I like San Martin , have a couple of other Aliex brands too.

San Martin has been the one that stood out most though , ilikewatches channel on YouTube run some macro comparisons it transpired San Martin had prevailed over some big names in that vid (seiko & grand seiko)

Do I think they are superior to both of those brands on the whole ? … no. But In the case of that vid they were & that’s a good sign for a microbrand to be able to do that.

Ps: I’m not a San Martin paid shil. I do own a good number of seiko pieces & a GS piece too.

See my WRUW for further details.

I don’t know about you and I’m not accusing anyone here, but I always find people who comment about Chinese watches or anything made in China (Facebook mostly) have undertones of casual racism. It’s so pravelent that no one ever challenges it (including me) because social media is full of nutters and sometimes it’s just not worth it.

By the way, I’ve not got any (yet), but I think what brands like CIGA are doing look really exciting.

Love the Seagull chronograph, and I hear great things and about San Martin's quality at the price and that they have been making moves to be more what the enthusiasts wants.

There are going a load of dodgy and crap watches from place and country that massive, but hope to see more interesting pieces as time goes on and China and what the Chinese market want.

From what I've heard the best brands that offer quality, are worthy and worry about giving a good product are San Martin, Pagani Design and Sugess. However those are very hated because the majority of their models are hommage watches, personally I don't care about that, if you like a watch then go for it as long as you know you are paying for a decent functional piece its alright.

Edit: I'm actually considering buying a San Martin or a Sugess in a future.

I only trust chinese products if someone else is overseeing the production.

China is a vast manufacturing country with differing standards. I see the watch manufacturing split into several areas:

1)Stand alone companies making original watches I.e. ciga

2) high standard manufacturing where they have developed and refined their products and are now starting to do their own thing at a very good standard equal to lower grade Swiss I.e. San Martin

3) companies just doing blatant copies. Type in SH carbon watch and you will find an exact replica of a Christopher Ward with retractable crown

4) cheap crap

5) secretly making components for the swiss

6) making the majority of cases for the microbrand world

1&2, 5&6 or ok but you can’t ignore that those in the 2 bracket used to be in the 3 bracket

Americans are addicted to brands and fads not quality and price. Here we think if it's expensive it must be great!! That's what happens when you have more churches then schools and think you're born smart.

Do you include Apple and Tesla products? https://archives.nupge.ca/content/apple-admits-using-child-labour#:~:text=The%20computer%20giant%20company%2C%20Apple,three%20factories%2C%20which%20supply%20Apple.

https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/company-profile/tesla-inc#

My point on including the above is connected to your point about conditions, however the entire western supply chain is based on this. My Mrs came home bragging that she bough a nice pair of Jeans for £25. A pair of jeans takes aprox 35tonnes of water to make and it devastates the local environment. So I wouldn’t put all the blame on China and believe that they are to blame, western Pounds, Dollars and Euros keep that economy nice and healthy. As for watches? Well from as far as I can tell the only way you can guarantee your watch hasn’t had ANY Chinese involvement is to American made or perhaps the very highest makers. The rest? You bet that fish in those waters

https://medium.com/@environmentaldefenseinitiative/fast-fashion-in-bangladesh-19f32afe2f30#:~:text=Many%20clothing%20companies%20outsource%20production,the%20use%20of%20child%20labor.

Yes, I own neither.

I recognize it's quite difficult to completely avoid, but I sure don't need to support it in the space of 100% unnecessary luxury items.

I hear you, personally I think it’s almost impossible but I’m always happy to learn. Which brands do you have that are exempt? Cool if you want to end the discussion on this one as it’s getting a tad off topic 😁😁

It's for the most part not possible to verify if you mean watches. I just avoid the obvious ones because I know I'm doing damage at that point. It's less likely that I'm contributing to suffering if I go with some brands from certain countries than others, and if they're still complicit, it's likely they are less so than the obvious ones. Everyone draws the line in different places.

I think you have just made my point. If it’s obvious then avoid at all cost, if its not obvious then happy days!

The top 3 dress watches are very similar but do have differences (different lugs, applied vs printed indices, stick vs alpha handsets, date vs no-date).

The GP and Zenith are close, but the GP has an 8-sided bezel vs the Zenith having a 12-sided bezel. Also, the handsets are different as are the bracelet link lengths.

I will grant you that the differences are very small. I’d put these in the homage territory but are not clonmages (e.g. straight copies). Homages are OK in my books (I tend to avoid them nowadays) whereas the clonmages are not fine in my book as they’re basically fakes.

I didn’t take time to find those that are almost or are identical but they are there. My point is that it’s horrifying that there are Chinese homage watches where everyone runs for the moral high ground however everyone turns a blind eye to the Swiss and the others

Well, for me at least, I don’t really care who makes them. Clonmage makers can be Chinese or Swiss or Japanese or whatever. It’s what they do rather than which country they’re based in.

I don’t have an issue with watchmakers from China. As I’ve said earlier in the thread, I like original designs like the ED1963 chrono.

If San Martin and Pagini Design pivots and turns to original designs, more power to them. Otherwise they risk becoming a Steinhart who has the ability to manufacture good pieces but never got rid of their clonmage reputation.

I with you on that. San Martin do make their own design though, some are very interesting, their GMTs are not like others as are some of the divers, they are not my cup of tea though.

Behrens is insane👀

Those look decent but generic. Imagine if they hired a real designer—they could have a winner on their hands.

I know this channel well.

The presenters' individual channels have useful videos about scams in 🇨🇳.

With respect to 🇨🇳 ⌚, a recent discussion about Seagull has me visiting their site more often.

I would say that they are the biggest and strongest 🇨🇳 company and are releasing more ambitious models that are also at higher prices.

Not sure I have any interest in them, though, despite a reasonable degree of finishing.

Shanghai Watch Company is getting better but lacks anything in my interest.

Of course, the Hangzhou Watch Company supplies Baltic with a micro rotor movement in the MR01 and GMT movements in some San Martin and Pagani Design ⌚.

I cannot find many ⌚ from them.

Of course, Behrens and CIGA Design have off the cuff hits but no real catalog.

Finally, Qin Gan has a beautiful history of limited series ⌚ with his most recent ⌚ costing $46,000?

A 3 Hz movement in a gold case with an attractive dial?

Sounds like he took some marketing courses from Rolex.

Zelos is a great brand from China, have got 2 hammerhead, swordfish which I have with me now in Thailand ...Great for island hopping...quality build and every day tool watch.....

Yes, the more Chinese the better. Sea-Gull is great - history, plenty of their own designs, and in-house movements. Now homage brands with Seiko/Miyota movements, they have their place, but I don't view them as Chinese watches in the sense they arent really brands selling me a Chinese watch.

Check out Phoibos. Chinese as they come and original designs.